Thursday, January 04, 2007

42

Why hello there, this post contains spoilers about life, the universe and everything. Please don't read if you know you get offended about religiony and non-religiony stuff.

This post is really, purely for myself, to write down all my ponderings of late and to order my own views and opinions. They are only opinions and I'm way totally happy for every single person to have their own take on things. That said, I do apologise if anyone reading this feels affronted.

Most, if not all, cultures have a religion or belief system that imparts values on its people and tries to explain the unexplainable. Throughout the ages, people have looked to older or more learned people for guidance and these people used stories as a medium to impart that guidance and other lessons. I do reckon this might be where religion started.

Stories were used to console, entertain and explain, but they were also used as a tool to admonish and control people. 'Why should I not kill, you are not strong enough to stop me?' 'Because you will be punished in the next life.', etc.

In any society, physical strength and aggression most often is a person's most valuable assets, but I think less strong or elderly people found another way to power, utilising the power of the unknown, the power of religion and basically making up new rules to suit their situation.
Our brains are hardcore cool and as survival became easier for peoples and less taxing on our energies and brainpower, the search for answers filled that space. More people had bigger questions and those that were willing to offer an answer would have become more powerful, you can see this in any group of people, and this, I'm guessing, was the start of organised religion.

Everyone believes something different, each shaped by their own perception and how strong their faith is. Without meaning to offend, I do feel like the measurement of someone's faith is how strong they are willing to suspend their disbelief and how willing they are to accept someone's story.

Religion is a big business and while the Catholic church may not have the power it once did, religion as a whole is still very much on everyone's mind... but I think that all belief systems have muddied the waters and have confused people. A lot of people seem to spending their time sorting through the stories they are willing to believe and the stories they aren't.

I think that Religion has it's uses; it makes people feel less alone, it motivates them to act correctly, it makes it much easier to console someone who has lost a loved one and gives people something to think about that is a bit bigger picture... but I personally feel that it's time to give it away.

The simplest answer is often the correct one:

There is no divine.
There is no afterlife.
There is no plan.

This planet has a million kabillion wonderous and horrifying things on it, but that is all down to our perception. The complexity and amazingness of it all can be explained by evolution, what doesn't fit in, dies. The concept of transferance of souls is overly complex and is just born of our own fear of death.

Humankind doesn't understand a lot of things, but I think that is the greatest thing that it needs to understand is that we don't actually have to have answers for everything. There is nothing wrong with confusion and there is no shame in not understand something - and I feel all and any religions may have simply made up answers instead of simply admitting they don't know.
Life is random and confusing and really has no point - which might be upsetting for people, but I think there is also a freedom there; we can make it what we want it. We can decide what the point is and I think it should be to leave this world better than how we found it.

With freedom comes responsibilty. I feel that mankind's insistence on a greater power with a plan helps people accept events out of their control, but it also passes responsibility to someone else. No gods are ever going to come down and teach/save/condemn mankind.

The rest of our little planetary coinhabitants would probably see us as gods, ie, we can help them or destroy them.

I don't feel that religion has caused wars, because frankly if it wasn't that excuse it probably would have been something else - mankind is just another aggressive animal. However, without the concept of an afterlife, soldiers on ever side might be far less likely to throw their lives away or take anothers so easily. Or maybe not, who knows... Justifying things is our best skill.
We each only get one shot at this life thing, and then all that is left of us is any legacy we leave behind; be it objects, projects or memories.

With all this in mind, the whole preparing for the next life does seem a bit selfish, I know most people don't really think about it, but how rockin' would it be if the same energy that was spent in leaving the world/our communities a better place than worrying about praying enough or concerning ourselves with an omnipotent watchdog.

And this might be oversimplified, but if peoples all shared the view of 'it is best to leave the world in a better state then when you rocked in', mankind might have been far more in tune with the rest of our little planet.

I guess I would be labelled as an atheist, but I reckon that this term implies a cynicism or jadedness that I don't feel. Could I be an 'Everythingatarian' or believe in 'Aderism' if a label must be used?

32 Comments:

At 2:53 PM, Blogger Mars said...

Religion is interesting. the one thing i'm glad of, is that i went to a religious school, and for about 10 years my parents dragged us kicking and screaming to church.

I wasn't glad of any of this at the time, but i feel that now, my opinion on the topic is valid, given that i've heard what they have to say, and made a more informed decision.

I'd love to learn more about other religions and i think people who can beleive in something without question are kind of interesting. On one had, they're lucky that they have something in their life that they so whole-heartedly beleive it. On the other hand, they're kind of naïve...

But ya know, what ever. I've got problem with religious-types, if that's what someone needs to get through life, well that's up to them. the only problem i have is when someone tries to inflict their values or whatever on other people.

So yeah, good post man.

 
At 4:11 PM, Blogger Jen said...

I think religion is terribly interesting. Not so much the actual beliefs, but how people value religion.

I don't believe in God, I don't believe in heaven and hell and all of those huge polar opposites.

I know it's a frequently mentioned point, but I don't think that a God would allow bad things to happen to good people, if that's how it's meant to work. Why do people who are totally awesome have their houses burn down, or have car crashes, why do bad people win lotto and all? I know "it all happens for a reason" but that sort of seems to just justify the bad stuff happening.

I am a HUGE believer in karma. If you do good things, and project a good energy then you attract it back. I really think if people were more concerned with doing "good" things and not so much "right" things, the world would be much nicer.

I like your point about life being random and confusing, and I suppose that why I like the idea of karma. I used to believe in Fate, but then I realised I don't really like the idea of this whole set plan that is just "meant" to happen. You create your own luck and oppourtunties, so karma fits right in with all of that, nothing is programmed, you can change things in an instant.

OMG! I just ADORE considering these huge issues, I could talk for years about all this meaning of life, why are we all here, why do people behave this way type stuff, etc. I think I love it because there is no answer, and there can't be, the so options are truly limitless.

 
At 4:31 PM, Blogger meva said...

Adam, what a fantastic post! I agree with everything you say, and you said it all so well.

Thanks, matey.

 
At 4:40 PM, Blogger Amanda said...

I've spent a lot of time contemplating this stuff too. I agree with your take on aetheism too... its what I'd be considered, but I don't like the pessmism and negativity that goes with the term.

I do like learning about different religions though. Spent some time reading Jehovah's Witnesses books in high school (did you know they actually have a little black book with come backs to every shut down you can give them when they knock on the door on a Saturday morning), until my Mum found out and decided I was being brainwashed. I wasn't, I can assure you that.

I think I agree with Jen, the reason it's so interesting is that there is no absolute answer (although I did write a very angry post yesterday about scientology and its take on psychiatry, which I firmly believe is wrong, so that's an absolute). We can never really know, until we die.

I guess religion is a comfort to many people- gives them something to fall back on, and guides them through their life. But it also leads to bad things (not sure whether I think its the cause of wars, but I do lean towards thinking it does).

Certainly has its place, but I do wonder what would happen if it was somehow erradicated entirely. Of course, there's no way this would happen, so it's just another thing we can never really 'know'.

I could write an entire essay on this, so I should stop now!

 
At 6:56 PM, Blogger Enny said...

Oooh - I want to put some thought in and get back to you on this!

 
At 10:48 PM, Blogger Enny said...

I was brought up in a catholic school and went to church every weekend, then got a job so stopped church, then stopped 'religion' in college/uni (the only difference was that I only mimed grace on family tea night instead of saying it out loud), got a bit keener on it, and then it settled a bit.

I think that the main purpose is just to be good/kind/compassionate etc. Though as much as I'm taking an interest in Buddhism and do hope to explore that some more this year, I can't help myself from saying my prayers when I'm having trouble falling asleep, reciting 'Hail Mary's whent he plane is taking off/landing or praying for the souls of roadkill. Though I don't believe that there is anything wrong with homosexuality, living in sin etc, so I'm not really sure where I stand.

I do think that I believe in Heaven and I do think that there is something after this... though I'm not entirely what I think it is. I'm currently reading Bill Bryson's history of everything book, and I was a bit taken aback by realising that pretty much everything that exists in the world is just a collection of teeny tiny particles... it took me back to the nights when I was in my teens when I couldn't sleep for hours for all my thinking of the nothingess that comes when you die - it all just stops. But then, there is still a part of me holding out for something more - like I do feel that I haven't really lost my Pa and my old dog forever...?

Now I'm just rambling... I really wish I was articulate enough about this sort of stuff - it really wasn't worth telling you that I wanted to think about it first, because really I've been thinking about it for over 20 years!

 
At 10:50 PM, Blogger TryingTimes said...

There's much in what you say that's right - the analysis of how mankind has used religion (and if we didn't use to religion as an excuse for our warring we'd find something else that fit the bill) is right on the money.

But the issue of Fate, of Karma... I'm with delightfuljen on this.

I was brought up RC and abandoned those views as soon as I left home.

Quite happy believing in nothin' much until recently.

And then I met someone, she changed my world, I changed hers and together we aren't two different people, we're one person. And now I believe I was put here for that someone... So yeah, I believe in Fate and Karma.

Different strokes though, eh?



TT.

 
At 9:38 AM, Blogger Kris said...

Perhaps you are more agnostic than atheist.

Its very easy to question religion and what is beyond mainly because things like that are based entirely on faith and what one believes. Not one person has yet come back from the dead, and given us a detailed account of what is out there. So it is stupid for us to start wars over who is wrong and right, when none of us know.

As to the fact that science can explain a lot of things about belief and religion. Being a biology major myself, I just read a scientific book called "A Short History of Nearly Everything" by Bill Bryson that talked about the history of the universe and origin of life and humans based on science and scientific discoveries.

I found a lot of amazement in a book so far left of religion. By reading the book, and seeing how "lucky" we have to be not only human but our individual selves. How many things could of gone wrong, and even if it happened a nanosecond sooner or later we may not be. Makes you think about whether there is something out there beyond our understanding that leads to what becomes the concept of religion.

But personally my favorite quote about religion is by a fellow named Louis Nizer, "True religion is the life we lead, not the creed we profess."

 
At 10:04 AM, Blogger Adam said...

Absolutely TT. I love that everyone who has commented here has a different take on what they believe and what they feel. I also really like how open and respectful of others everyone is. It wasn't so long ago that Religion was just something you didn't talk about with your neighbours for fear of feudin'.

I went to a Catholic primary and high school and it was that very inability to discuss rationally that started me thinking more deeply about it. I remember one Brother storming out of Religion class because we asked too many questions and didn't accept everything as blind faith but I think anyone who sees the Bible as the undeniable account of history rather than an edited and evolving collection of stories/lessons is always going to come a bit unstuck.

Miss Enny, I think you're plenty articulate enough. I know exactly where you're coming from and I think that a lot of my friends would share a very similar view and understanding as yourself.

Amanda and Mars, I way agree. I'd much rather discuss things with someone who has read about different religions and beliefs and thoughts and maybe has no preference than someone who has believed what they believe since they were a child and won't budge.

D'Jen and TT, I'm totally into positive energy and it's bouncing back abilities.

I should at this point introduce TT to everyones. This month is marrying a dear friend of ours who has been friends with Cara forevs and who I became good friends with when she stayed with us for 9 months and hung out in Melbourne for a year. It was superfun!

 
At 10:14 AM, Blogger Adam said...

Whoa Kris! You same-time-typist you!

Hmmm, I understand Agnostic to be someone who believes a higher power to be 'unknowable' whereas an Atheist deliberately believes there is no higher power - which is where I currently am.

I read that Bryson book a while ago and I really think it helped shape my thoughts on the matter. It's quite a chunky read but interesting as all out.

I was hoping you were going to comment Kris, because I thought people from America might be a bit blind faithy but your opinions are clearly well thought out and considered. Thanks dude!

 
At 12:33 PM, Blogger BEVIS said...

"so there was a bit of annamosity in my house from the beggining...How do you spell that word?)"


Lulu, "animosity" and "beginning" - which word did you want corrected?

:)

 
At 3:22 PM, Blogger Hey Jo said...

I love the fact that you have a reference to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy in your post and that no opne else seemed to pick up on it. The original TV series is one of my favorites. The meaning of life is 42. A classic line.

I really have no other comment on the religion aspect.

 
At 3:26 PM, Blogger BEVIS said...

I most certainly did not miss the HHGTG reference.

 
At 1:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think religion should be a very private thing... at least it is for me. I can't stand people on soapboxes preaching at me about Jesus, and that god is all powerful and loves and blah fucking blah.

And I certainly dispise jehova's witness who come to my house and try to spew their propaganda on my front door step. If i want religion i'll go to church, but don't you DARE come to MY home and preach to me that I will be going to hell. Fuckers.

I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions, their own beliefs, but I dont see the need to shove their beliefs down anyone else's throat, and thats what gripes on me the most.

I guess I'm very bitter because when my brother was sick and diganosed with cancer (and dying) a father of a girl i went to high school with and who i barely knew, rang me up out of the blue and told me that if my brother didnt turn to god, he would go to hell and burn for all eternity. I remember crying on the phone because I was so upset and so shocked and i remember him screaming at me about god and the bible etc (turns out he is one of those people that go to those tv evangalist people). I will never EVER forget that call (I was only 18) and since then, if anyone mentions religion or gets preachy around me, i just get my back up. Just because I dont go to church every sunday, doesnt mean im a bad person. I'm with D'Jen... a very big big believer in Kharma and in living a good and compasionate life...

I also really like Kris's quote: "True religion is the life we lead, not the creed we profess." I love that and i think it sums my beliefs up quite well.

Sorry if I'm rambling, I'm sure I will bring down a whole bucketful of hate down on myself with this reply but i can't help being bitter. I also went to a catholic school and lost count of how many times the fathers and brothers stormed out of our religion classes because we questioned what was in the bible too... I got so many demerit points for it. But I hated how nothing could be an open discussion with them. It was always 'this is what you will believe' and if you questioned why, you were a bad person and had the devil in your ear!

Um, i've probably missed the entire point of your post, haven't I? Sorry, I'm with Enny on not being articulate enough to get my points across (also like enny, I'm exploring buhhdaism... i've always believed strongly in past lives. I know from some things that happened after my bro died that there IS something after death, just not sure what yet).

okay okay! I'm going now!

 
At 1:01 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whoops! Sorry that was deb

 
At 6:22 AM, Blogger Kris said...

Deb, I am glad you liked the comment. And it sums up my faith as well.

Adam, I was taught that agnostic doesn't so much believe that things are unknowable. More like that they haven't found really any solid evidence to make them believe or disbelieve in a higher power. But you are right, you may be swinging more towards atheist.

And yes, unfortunately in America as evidence in our debates on intelligent design in school. Some people have a very narrow minded opinion of religion and how it should play in one's life. We take prayers out of school, but won't pass a bill for stem cell based on the religious belief of life beginning at conception.

And I think any person, who takes the time to learn, read, and inform themselves. Who asks questions, and never accepts things at face values. Also learns to do the same with religion, and respect people's belief systems whether they are for or against relgion at all.

You obviously have a lot of people on here, including yourself who seem to be very respectful and well informed individuals.

 
At 12:46 PM, Blogger Jen said...

P.S Wiki the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" for a bit of a different view on the whole intelligent design stuff.

I'm a pastafarian!!

 
At 5:58 PM, Blogger Enny said...

My 2c on the atheist/agnostic thing - I thought atheists didn't believe in God, and agnostics don't believe in ANY god.

I think The Hun is agnostic, though I pronounce it 'spoilsport'.

 
At 1:10 AM, Blogger Shelley said...

Can't sat that I missed the Hitch Hicker's reference either. [To Adam's credit it was probably the most cliched part of the post.] But then, I haven't commented until now.

Heavy shit, Adam. Almost always best discussed over copious amounts of alcohol.

Still, what I find irritating is that atheists are always forced to explain themselves whereas a belief in god (I've ever had a soft spot for Zeus) is considered quite normal.
Oh, and anyone who wants to save my soul *yawn*

Interesting distinction, Enny.

 
At 12:04 PM, Blogger kiki said...

i think that the way that religion was able to gain such power in the pre and middle ages was due to the fact that 99% of people were dirt poor and had absolutely nothing to live for.

except heaven.

religiong gave these people a reason to be. a reason to live a good life and be justly rewarded for it. unfortunately, in most cases, the people administering religion were corrupt and non-believers who used their power as a tool to enhance their own, and the church's, wealth


i don't believe in any higher power. buddhism is where it's at. the best way to change the world is to start with you, then move on from there

 
At 2:10 PM, Blogger Steph said...

Adam, You're very brave. Well said and i agree 100%. Lucky for you, you didn't make light of the subject or crack any jokes. The God botherers are quite an unforgiving bunch :P

 
At 9:04 AM, Blogger kiki said...

theoretically steph, they are very forgiving. sweeping generalisations are not good at describing people

 
At 12:35 PM, Blogger BEVIS said...

Blondes wouldn't understand sweeping generalisations, Kiki.

 
At 1:01 PM, Blogger Mars said...

...either would men!

 
At 2:42 PM, Blogger kiki said...

mars = feminist?

 
At 2:44 PM, Blogger Mars said...

uhhhh... aren\'t all self-respecting females?

also, does Bevis have something against blondes?

 
At 3:40 PM, Blogger kiki said...

not bottle blondes, so you're ok Mars

 
At 4:15 PM, Blogger Mars said...

GAHahahahahahahachoke.

 
At 8:40 AM, Blogger BEVIS said...

Everyone understands I was playing on the joke of what Steph had said (in light of Kiki's comment about sweeping generalisations), right?

Maybe blondes needed it explained for them, but everyone else knew, yes?

:)

I have nothing against anybody. Except old people.

 
At 10:26 PM, Blogger Adam said...

I count everyone over the age of 30 as old people.

 
At 7:28 AM, Blogger I'm not Craig said...

Hey Adam, I really enjoyed this post. I've been writing a post on atheism and such stuff for about three weeks now and it will probably get posted over at my little blog sooner or later.

Probably this month.

 
At 3:51 PM, Blogger Adam said...

Mr INC, I actually wanted to mention you in this post, because on one hand I've had my church going grandparents who would get angry if we didn't go with them but only because they wanted to show us off to their friends and were also the most racist and intolerent people I've ever spoken to but on the other hand, I've got your stories of travelling across town on Christmas day because that mass is a place where you feel nice and comfortable. The only reason I didn't was because I didn't want to force the conversation on you, but I'm way pleased you're writing something up and I very much look forward to reading a worldly person's religious opinion.

 

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